Redwoods in Stout Grove

Largest coast redwoods and new discovery .. 2008 - 2021

Middle 1/3 of page reviews redwood explorers 1963-2006 .. Rumors stuff at the end

by Mario Vaden | I.S.A. Certified Arborist - PNW 5584A .... This info is also presented as an arborist report

coast redwood tour guide and arborist

Although people credit us with big tree discoveries, our finds are nothing compared to God creating these wonders. Heap credit where it's deserved.

Redwood National and State Parks now has the widest and tallest redwoods surpassing Sequoiadendron for girth and height, placing Sequoia sempervirens toe-toe for size. Coast redwoods below are samples of new 2008 - 2020 discoveries. Over 200 diameter records, giants and 18' - 29' dbh redwoods; even a 235 ft. weeping Hemlock. The largest disclosed is a "Big Kahuna" eclipsing the 1998 Grove of Titans. More than one exceeds the 1321 AF points of Sherman Sequoiadendron making coast redwood more of a national champ. The mountain genus are Sequoias in name only wheras real Sequoia giants are coast redwoods (read Coast Redwood: The real Giant Sequoia)

Grove of Titans and the Lost Monarch redwood

2019 I updated an age estimate to over 4000 years based on 3000-ring trunks (Is the World's Oldest Tree a Coast Redwood). A few records from past years are at World Records but redwood updates go here and the Grove of Titans page with a video response. In 2021 a Sitka spruce height record was discovered moving Picea to a virtual tie for world's 2nd tallest species (see Taylor's post ENTS BBS 100m species). It's worth noting that some rube ignorantly misinformed folks about size, location, discoverers and genus of finds not published like Hail Storm a Tsuga less than 10 feet dbh. So take what you read here as fact, but don't fill blanks blindly from speculators who "read between lines".

 

Continue reading below the image ... woman shown for for scale ...

Grogans Fault redwood, wider than famous redwoods Grove of Titans

 

Ever since the 2008 Dog Soldier discovery in Redwood National Park it was evident more exist. Various albino redwoods were also found in Prairie Creek, Jedediah Smith and Humboldt RSP. And 2020, I found an albino in southern Oregon. The unpublished redwoods also include a diameter record Capt. Jack Sparrow (aka Jupiter), which only appears in one news story (World's Fattest Redwood / Lost Coast Outpost July 2015). Early 2017, a favorite DARTH VADER was introduced. Huge fallen titans were also found like Lost Man's Fault. In 2019, more tall redwoods were discovered in Humboldt. March 2020, we found the world's tallest Sequoiadendron (video) outside the indigenous range, near Eagle Point, Oregon.

May 2020, I added one more video about the Big Kahuna and photographing redwoods

What is "official"?

About "official" for new finds, discovery practically never originates from rangers, NPS or Guinness Book. A small guild of explorers and experts find and measure, and when that alliance determines a new discovery it becomes more official than official because rangers or Guinness have no other cistern to draw from. Think back several world records. Each one was found, then afterward relayed to rangers or authors. A national champion is not a champ because American Forests says so, nor a record because Guinness published.

Also, when I measure trees as a Certified Arborist and and put my name to it as a Certified Arborist, the information has basically become certified (official). Having been trained by Chris Atkins while working for Dr. Sillett on the redwood LiDAR project in itself lends another facet to this. But generally when a Certified Arborist submits an arborist report, recipients go with it like for planning, safety, inventory.

For example, when Dr. Chris Earle updates his coast redwood page, if Michael Taylor or Chris Atkins tell him about a new find or measurement, Chris will probably list that new info if it's the only source. This "what is official" stuff seems different nowadays. Some discoverers are not publishing all of their finds. The parks are not updating the public about every new discovery they are told about. Even when Dr. Sillett was interviewed by the Statesman Journal about a grove and funding, he was quoted as saying "We now know of larger trees elsewhere". And what are they? Guinness Book can't tell you. Rangers may not know. But Steve knows, and probably Chris, Michael, Zane, John, Max, etc..


Jedediah Smith Redwoods park

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What does this all mean? For me ... I have seen the heart of the park where most people will never go, but my trekking pole is crooked, and my legs feel it more. These days I explore more slowly but do return to a few spots like New Hope Grove. I hoped to explore more around Devil's Creek but maybe someone new to bushwhacking can cover that. As stated below toward the end, your chance of finding a new top-ten redwood is maybe a 1/100 of 1% chance, but even in 2018, I encountered new massive coast redwoods I haven't seen before, plus a new albino redwood (2020) in southern Oregon.

The biggest reason for new discoveries was getting away from the Grove of Titans. For years people scoured Jedediah Smith trying to find that grove and afterward just kept going back again and again to admire that same grove or similar redwoods without searching new area. I did likewise briefly, but we shifted gears and started exploring Redwood National Park and finding new trees. So many discoveries followed, we didn't get back to the Grove of Titans for almost two full years.

 

(707) 465 - 3474 at 700 Hy. 101 S. Crescent City, CA 95531
Fishermans Restaurant at the redwood coast

 

The era of giant coast redwood discovery is basically gone !!

Research will continue but the days of hunting unknown largest redwoods is almost a thing of the past. The remaining old growth is mostly explored. To hitch a ride on the tail end of this era was like running for the last car of an old train and someone reached out a hand to help me leap on board the last train that would ever steam down the tracks. Discovery of new giant redwoods is vanishing like a whiff of smoke.

Some discoveries were not fully revealed, but any redwood may appear genericallly at the mystery pages (main redwood page menu). Regarding the one Big Kahuna shown above, Taylor commented (would) "not surprise me if the total volume of this beast is over 40K cubic feet" referring to just the main trunk. Compare that to old discoveries !! Melkor's main trunk is 33,500 cu. ft.. Del Norte Titan is 33,670 cu. ft. with 9.5% volume from 43 reiterated trunks. Iluvatar has 12.3% in over 100 stems and a main trunk 32,890 cu. ft. It reasoned redwoods this large remained in Redwood National and State Parks. Find more updates at Hyperion coast redwood

In 2014, John Montegue found a coast redwood in Redwood National Park with circumference 107.8 ft or 34.31 ft. ground diameter and 27 ft. dbh. Weeks later I discovered a redwood 27.4 ft. diameter. May 2015, John reported a record 29.2 ft. diameter single trunk coast redwood (Capt. Jack Sparrow aka Jupiter). So many I quit counting. John's list of (everyone's) 18 foot and wider redwoods is approximately 400 total. The discoveries launched coast redwood ahead of Sequoiadendron for diameter and coast redwood became the widest species in the USA. Capt. Jack exceeds Sequoiadendron for girth at dbh and at ground level ("footprint"). Knowledge of new finds is not known or not taught at visitor centers of Redwood National Park or Sequoia National Park. I present information on this page as a Certified Arborist report to "etch it in stone" a qualified published resource.

I added the Church redwood on the blog too, which is almost as wide as Del Norte Titan, with a cave that may be largest room in a living single stem coast redwood. The Church redwood also has huge volume. The previous link was a page, but follow this next one to my Church Redwood Video

 

(707) 464 - 2137 at 701 Hy. 101 S. Crescent City, CA 95531
Curly Redwood Lodge Motel Lodging

 

One mystery unravelled! When John encountered the 29.2 ft. dbh redwood in 2015, I was curious where it could be that I had not seen it before. Months later during a bushwhack with Atkins, I learned the 29.2 footer was a redwood Thomas and I found in 2009 when we bushwhacked there, but left a different direction and didn't make it back to measure or photograph. Thomas and I measured only a handful of redwoods planning to return another year. This exemplifies what I wrote down this page about repeat findings. John encountered the same redwood in 2015, taking a definitive tape wrap. Due to the previous finding with Thomas years earlier, we call the diameter champ Captain Jack Sparrow whereas John calls it Jupiter. Whatever name you choose, it's not among my photos, just as Bigfoot and several other redwoods between 30,000 and 60,000 cu. ft. are not in my albums or website.

John gets credit for discovering (realizing) the diameter, and anybody else can pick whatever name they wish. It reminds me of a redwood "Redwood-Ed" in Prairie Creek's Valley of the Lost Groves. Ed Gilbert and John measured and named it around 2016, whereas Lowell Cottle (seasonal ranger) and myself tape wrapped it October 24, 2008. But I think Hildebrant or Sillett spotted it 15 years earlier. Some of these redwoods are bound to get double names and repeat findings.

While the era of coast redwood discovery fades into history, the frontier ahead is redwood photography. Photographers have barely scratched the surface. The heart of the redwood forest has never really been captured. It requires time and going places others won't go. This is the new era of coast redwood photography ... the journey continues. One other adventure I can share, was the opportunity to ascend some redwood canopy in 2019. I shared some about it at Old Growth Redwood Climb video

Continue reading below the image ... Chris Atkins shown for scale

Largest Coast Redwoods of Redwood National and State Parks

 

Explorers of the Redwood Coast

Among the explorer network, Ron Hildebrant goes back years with Michael Taylor. After Dyerville Giant of Humboldt Redwoods fell March 24, 1991, after a strorm, Michael and Ron teamed-up to calculate height using marks on the adjacent "Cat Scratch" redwood. Dyerville Giant was discovered around 1966 by University of California scientist Paul Zinke and graduate student Allen Stangenberger. Taylor and Hildebrant realized the fallen Dyerville Giant was actually an unknown potential world record.

In February 1993, by phone, Zinke told Michael Taylor to watch for his other finds tagged 12, 13, 14, or the Three Peas in a Pod. Taylor and Hildebrant first became friends around Christmas 1990, and their first expedition together was February 1991 in Humboldt Redwoods State Park searching for tallest redwoods. Between that winter and the next summer is when Taylor began his quest for largest coast redwoods. Prairie Creek Redwoods State Park was Taylor's starting point.

Michael Taylor and Steve Sillett met autumn 1994 after Taylor spotted a super tall coast redwood. When Sillett arrived with a climbing team to measure, he noticed a small #12 tag, meaning it must be one of Zinke's Peas in the Pod. This is the same redwood they named Telperion. The group also spent a night up in it high canopy during a small rain storm, sleeping in customized hammocks called Tree Boats, acquired from New Tribe of Oregon. Telperion fell during the next strong storm 1 or 2 months later. The team may have escaped death by a matter of weeks. By 1996, Sillett climbed and confirmed Taylor's Mendocino redwood as a new world record for that era; 367.5 ft. And they found others together around the same time like Pipe Dream in Humboldt Redwoods State Park.

1987, Sillett's first exposure to the famous redwoods overlapped enrollment at Reed College where he studied botany. He eventually went camping at Prairie Creek, involving his legendary free-climb of a big redwood with friend Marwood. They used a smaller adjacent redwood's limbs to reach 70 feet, then leaped into the big one, and to the top. They obviously made their way down, but with some conflict with yellow jackets. The same week, Taylor, who had already experienced the redwoods at a younger age, was 15 miles away with a tour group in Redwood National Park.

In 1996, Sillett was hired to teach at Humboldt State University, and moved to Arcata from Corvallis, Oregon, three years after meeting Taylor. Sillett was very busy but managed to squeeze in a few hikes and bushwhacks with Taylor. Sillett also applied to Redwood National Parks at that time to climb coast redwoods for research. That is when Redwood National Parks established a permit process for scientists. There was no established climbing permit process for redwoods before. This is when the study and climbing began in Iluvatar and Atlas Grove redwoods. Sillett already knew Robert Van Pelt, a long-time explorer of other Pacific NW forests. He contacted VanPelt, taught him redwood climbing techniques, then Robert (Bob) joined the Atlas Grove study project. In 1997, Sillett called Taylor and started teaming with him to explore Redwood National Park on foot for more tallest redwoods. 1998 is the year Sillett and Taylor discovered Lost Monarch up in Jedediah Smith, the largest coast redwood known for that era.

Soon after in 2000, Chris Atkins heard about Taylor. They met and teamed together for many explorations including discovery of the world records Helios and Hyperion in 2006. Earlier, Atkins broke the world record himself in 2000, with Statosphere Giant in Humboldt Redwoods State Park; it moved ahead of the Mendocino coast redwood for at least four years. Together they found at least another hundred redwoods 350 ft. and taller.

We should note Paul Zahl, who, in 1963, led a small National Geographic expedition to what later became Redwood National Park. Finding no world record at first, he flew back east, but returned shortly and discovered the Libbey redwood: a world record that held the title for quite a few years. Zahl seems one of the shortest-lived redwood explorers, but I think the effort deserves attention. His discovery was also useful leverage to help secure Redwood National Park. Much of their quest did not have the present-day trail system to get around. He practically had to bushwhack the midst and banks of Redwood Creek. They finally found an old logging road to get into new spots.

Most of these discoverers are named in Forest Giants of the Pacifc Coast by Dr. Robert Van Pelt, or Richard Preston's non-fiction redwood adventure book. This is part of the network in a nutshell. Check out my review page on that Preston book because another explorer of a different sort is mentioned: G. F. Beranek.

Around 2008, I was contacted by Steve Sillett and Michael Taylor, about a month or two apart. Taylor invited me to explore and explained his methods. Sillett invited me to check out potential study plots and explore with him and Dr. Robert Van Pelt (aka The Lorax). Eventually Sillett offered me part time work assisting Chris Atkins to measure other tallest redwoods associated with a LiDAR project. In those years and following, I found new notable or record trees with them, some on my own, and met other people involved with the research network: Marie Antoinne, Jim Spickler, Giacomo Renzullo, Anthony Ambrose, Dr. Hiroaki Ishii and Kenneth Fisher. This is where I joined the redwood forest network. I still have strong interest for exploring but started photography and portraiture through my redwoods experience and plan to focus on that more. I still keep an eye out for notable redwoods and other species.

For the LiDAR redwoods, Chris Atkins preferred camping, and we spent many evenings enjoying campfires and talking about the day's adventures as fog rolled-in over the redwood park. The few times I helped Steve Sillett, cabin lodging was in style, with home-cooked meals.

Meanwhile, I watch a few others picking up the quest of exploring. Zane Moore is an albino redwood enthusiast and committed his path to related college courses. Zane will follow the path of botany and forestry, and his experience is beginning to grow. John of Humboldt has an emphasis looking for fat redwoods and recording dimensions. But aside from Zane, new redwood enthusiasts like John do not understand nuts & bolts of the forest's biggest species.

What really set apart explorers like Van Pelt, Sillett and Taylor, was not just a good eye for spotting new discoveries. It was their connection with the forest, understanding it more with every season. Each one of them was a forester, arborist and naturalist of a sort. Even Chris Atkins is more of a naturalist than some realize. These men and their collaborators went beyond the basics of smart sounding quotes and bare bones basics. They learned to read the forest like a book, watching its story unfold as countless chapters continue to be written.

In our generation, Atkins, Van Pelt, Taylor and Sillett set a new "bar" for exploring and research. They have advanced tools and techniques, but their commitment to detail is outstanding. For example, I observed Taylor's ground-based laser measure come within one millimeter of a climb team's tape drop! Contrasting, John Muir published that a giant sequoia's age as 4000 years. The rings were recounted years later by a researcher, who found the real age close to 3000 years. With Atkins, Taylor or Sillett, a 1000 yr. exaggeration or mistake would never happen. That would be unimaginable. Likewise, Hildebrant is pin-point accurate. Everbody has a strength and Muir definitely had his place in conservation. But for exploring, a few of today's explorers repaved the highway for measuring and research. Decades ago, I think Wendell Flint wanted to be even more accurate, but lacked a few of today's tools and technique. Flint is on the record for removing bulges from his volume estimates, a refrain from exaggeration. I think he would have enjoyed exploring with Atkins and Taylor, had Father Time allowed.

 

2016 Coast Redwood discovery update

 

Breaking with Tradition

Some remarkable redwood photos and stats were withheld after learning about a few people who triggered wear around some redwoods. So the full extent of new discovery is not published, People inquired if we found coast redwoods exceeding volume of General Sherman. Given everything found and realized 2013 to 2020, I'm 100% certain General Sherman is no longer the largest in volume for single trunk. It should be safe to say that the mystery giant does not rise higher than 332.13'

We decided to break with traditions and not nominate new largest coast redwoods to American Forests. For decades the trend was big tree hunters nominate most any new find. We see no need. At the moment, species withheld from American Forests include coast redwood, hemlock, maple and spruce. To help others understand, a few years ago it was reported someone sawed small trees around a discovery in southern Oregon. That doesn't fit our style of discovery. See more in this regard at Screaming Titans

 

Redwoods people encounter & emails

People often send emails about redwoods they encounter, wondering "does it have a name?" ... "has it been found before?" In a nutshell, almost nobody finds something noteworthy that Taylor, Sillett, Atkins or Hildebrandt hadn't seen years ago. Unless somebody finds something in a rare size class never seen, discoverers or researchers may have little interest.

After a long talk with Ron Hildebrant, it's evident more coast redwoods than we realize were found many years ago. His exploration exceeds what author Preston conveyed in his book. The chance for of a new 30,000 to 40,000 cu. ft. coast redwood is probably 1%. And the chance for a 50,000 cu. ft. (+) by amateurs maybe one-tenth of 1%

But the parks are vast and unexplored slivers may take 10 years or more to mop up. Beyond 2019 new discovery should be rare. It reminds me of people "scraping the bowl" when their stash depletes.

 

Inside scoop about permits, rangers, etc.

Take heed !

For context, before 2014, many redwood enthusiasts and scientists didn't reveal research grove locations. Likewise the policy of parks and rangers. Around 2012 to 2015, various people emailed scuttlebutt about some "ranger" or visitor center divulging locations. It wasn't something I needed to know, just commentary people shared.

But in 2014, park rangers told me they expect permits for anyone seeking new largest redwoods. Even for just wrapping a tape around the base, which is on par with any typical tourist counting arm spans. Yes .. that's the way some government bubbles operate

So I applied for permits in 2014 and 2015, but had concern. A permit means agreeing to disclose new finds in writing, but I did not know if what people emailed was rumor or fact. I expressed concern to a park scientist. Unknown to me, he forwarded my feedback to other offices or rangers at Redwood National and State Parks, apparently triggering a run for cover or anger. Months later, a few rangers pointed fingers of scorn at me, saying "no such thing would ever happen" at their end.

redwood discovery and ranger clue

Fast forward a few months .... a reputable redwood enthusiast and legacy member with Save the Redwoods, hiked with us on Flint Ridge trail. Hearing of this conflict, he confirmed that a ranger leaked to him the location of a research redwood, contrary to park policy. He specified an Orick ranger ... one who aimed scorn my way. The ranger may even have told him with good intentions to spare his time.

Months later, someone else connected with the parks emailed me confidentially, further confirming.

Even if tips were given with good intentions, that's beside the point of rangers speading negavites behind my back when it was their staff who asked for permits. And for me to express concern prior to signing a permit application was the right thing to do.

This ordeal proved to us that one or more RNP staff must be lying or spreading false rumors, but thankfully most rangers are not like that, and some cover our backs giving a heads-up as needed. So when you explore the parks, think the best of rangers in general. At the same time, the parks lost support. Our advice to everybody else is to skip permits and just go under the radar.

Update: June 2021, I wrote to a supervising ranger in Orick about this. I included a photo of our hiking trio the day the truth surfaced in conversation along Flint Ridge trail. After several years, it seemed right to confront the Orick office even if the other rangers may have left.

 

$1000 donation for the Grove of Titans

In 2016, we sent a letter and check to the Department of Parks and Recreation to help contend with environmental impact at the Grove of Titans in Jedediah Smith park. For their purpose I am listed as the sender, but a large part came from someone we can express a big thank you, Mark Graham. Photos showing impact are provided on my Screaming Titans redwood page.

In the few years following, total donations grew to over 1,000,000, apparently with Save the Redwoods League getting involved to raise even more funds.